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Streaming Lag

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Streaming Lag

by abandonedmilk » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:16 am

I am trying to stream some game play on Black Ops PC version. Everything is fine on the my PC end but if you watch the stream it is choppy and lags. I have tried everything I can think of from lowering the resolution and video quality. Below are my PC specs, bandwidth and xSplit settings. Any help with be greatly appreciated.

Exampled: http://www.twitch.tv/milk3y/b/292708116


Windows 7 64-bit
8GB of RAM
Intel Core i7-2600k 4.80GHz
NVIDIA GeForce GYX570

Bandwidth: 12Mbps/1.5Kbps

Xsplit:
Preset Xsplit Default
Codec x.254
Quality 6
VBV Max Bit 1000Kbps
VBV Buffer 2000Kbps
Resolution 1280 x720 (16:9) HDTV
Audio Format
44.100KHz 16 bit stereo
Codec MP3
Bitrate 64000
FPS 30
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Re: Streaming Lag

by alco-xsplit » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:05 am

try the local recording with the exact same settings above and see if the recorded file also exhibit the same lag.

this might also help: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1258#p5343
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Re: Streaming Lag

by abandonedmilk » Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:29 pm

I will try the VBV Buffer fix a try once I get home. I don't believe it will have the same effect when I do a local record. LoL streams without any issues but since the game is not that graphical and heavy on FPS I feel it has something to do with the push to JTV.

None the less I will try both and see what happens. Thank you for your help and I will let you know what happens.
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Re: Streaming Lag

by abandonedmilk » Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:00 am

No lag when recording local. I also played with the VBV Buffer as stated in the post and had the same results. I set the VBV Max Bitrate from 1Mbps to 1.4Mbps with a VBV buffer from 200 to 2800 and it had the same issue. The stream looked nice but frames would freeze every two seconds.
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Re: Streaming Lag

by alco-xsplit » Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:21 am

how about turning off vsync in LoL, as another user figured: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1374&hilit=lag
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Re: Streaming Lag

by abandonedmilk » Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:14 pm

Thank you for helping me with this issue. However, the issue is not with LoL, it seems to be with FPS intense games. I will try out the settings stated in the last post you linked and see if that does not correct the issue. Once again I really do appreciate your help in this matter.
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Re: Streaming Lag

by Trance » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:03 am

I'm still confused about your upload speed. You said 1.5 Kbps but that surely must be a typo, you mean 1.5 MB/s?

if that's the case try setting your bitrate to around 800, VBV to around 800 as well and give it another go.
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Re: Streaming Lag

by mikebaker » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:00 am

Let's get a little analytic (Updated August 27 - you will actually need to do separate local recording and will not be able to rely on automatic broadcast recording):

Is the problem local - does it have to do with the capture or encoding OR Is the problem remote - does it have to do with the internet connection or the CDN.

The simplest way to find out if the problem is local is to see if you have any issues when doing local stream recording. In this case you can dismiss direct problems with you capture and encoding and start focusing on you CDN and internet connection. (Its almost true ....because local recording does not currently allow you to exactly match live stream settings YET, unless you know how -:) )

As a general pointer if any core goes above 80% its time to consider your setup. Maybe consider to use a faster preset like superfast or better yet ....stream at 720 P so people can at least see your stream .

As for VBV buffer then please note the following:

The VBV buffer will indicate how long time the decoder should buffer before decode and render. The buffer is filled at a maximum rate of VBV-maxrate. So if your VBV-maxrate is set to X Kbps and your VBV-buffer is set to 2X Kbp then your decoder buffer (flash player) should be set at absolute min 2 sec (or maybe a bit more to match overhead and audio) to ensure that viewers can watch your stream smoothly.

We don't necessarily set the right VBV-buffer corresponding to the flash player settings for all providers . I think we will change default settings so that VBV-buffer will be set to the same as VBV-maxrate. This may well be a better match for most services.
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Re: Streaming Lag

by abandonedmilk » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:13 pm

My upload is 1.5Mbps. Was a mistype on my part.

I have tried a few different things at this point. I set my VBV Max Bit to 1Mbps and my VBV Buffer to 400Kbps and Preset to Ultrafast. This helped the stream be a little more smooth in 720p but looked like junk.
http://www.twitch.tv/milk3y/b/292856939
http://www.twitch.tv/milk3y/b/292857009

I then set the Preset to Ultrafast and Quality to 10. Stream was smooth but did not look the way I wanted it.
http://www.twitch.tv/milk3y/b/292858752
http://www.twitch.tv/milk3y/b/292859345

I then set it to veryfast and the stream was flawless but looked like crap.
http://www.twitch.tv/milk3y/b/292859980

I then updated the Quality to around 8 and updated my VBV Max Bit to 1.2Mbps and the stream was smooth with no lag. Was not the best looking but I was getting there.

Then something odd started to happen. The stream started to lag again.
http://www.twitch.tv/milk3y/b/292860258
http://www.twitch.tv/milk3y/b/292860488

Played with the settings some more and tried damn near every settings I could and nothing would fix it. I then got frustrated and gave up and went to play some LoL with a friend. The lag was not with Black Ops it was with anything I streamed.
http://www.twitch.tv/abandonedmilk/b/292866537
http://www.twitch.tv/abandonedmilk/b/292867385

After that game I did a cold boot on my PC and everything went back to normal. Now keep in mind, the fixes I did that night corrected the issues I was having when I started this post. However, it seems that if you keep playing around with settings and keep stopping and re-starting the stream it will start to create issues. At no point during any of this did my internet speed slow down or did my PC start to show signs of having issues or slowing down. So I am not 100% sure what created the issue but power cycling the PC seem to resolve the issue.

Once I get home tonight I will play with some more settings and try to find that “sweet spot”. Once I do I will repost what I find in hopes it will help others.
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Re: Streaming Lag

by mikebaker » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:48 pm

I cannot stress hard enough to carefully read my post again above again. I wrote it for a purpose.
THE FIRST THING TO FIGURE OUT IS IF YOU HAVE A LOCAL OR REMOTE ISSUE. LOOKING AT RECORDING FROM TWITCH TV IS COMPLETELY USELESS THEY WILL GIVE YOU ZERO INFORMATION...
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Re: Streaming Lag

by apoctv » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:06 pm

Abandonedmilk:

You need to set your XSplit to locally record a streaming session while you stream it online. This way the local version can be compared to the Twitch.tv version. This is to better isolate the problem.

After you stream and record locally, check to see if the freeze/hiccups problem is also in the local recording on your hard drive.
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Capture Card: AVerMedia Live Gamer HD (C985)
Internet Connection: 50/5

Re: Streaming Lag

by DangerousDan » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:29 am

I did this and it does the hiccup / stuttering but not nearly as bad during streaming
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Re: Streaming Lag

by henrik » Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:52 am

apoctowns wrote:Abandonedmilk:

You need to set your XSplit to locally record a streaming session while you stream it online. This way the local version can be compared to the Twitch.tv version. This is to better isolate the problem.

After you stream and record locally, check to see if the freeze/hiccups problem is also in the local recording on your hard drive.



A little problem here...the info from mike was actually wrong. Issues affection bandwidth will also affect automatic local stream recordings. The implementation of auto record broadcast was changed. - you need to compare against separate local record using Broadcast -> local record

He already redeemed himself -:) viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1506&p=6378#p6028

But the latest development release as of aug 27, 2011 may just fix several of the issue related to the lagging reported - especially at high FPS , try it out ..viewtopic.php?f=6&t=501 try it out.
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